“From Cuiabá to Kansas City: Mission Without Borders” - EP 139

Wayne and Dianna Penner have served in international missions since the 1970s, from church planting in Cuiabá, Brazil, with Berean Missions, to teaching at the International College of Bible Ministries in Johannesburg, South Africa. Now based in Kansas City, they teach at Carver Baptist Bible College.

 In this conversation, they share stories from missions, volunteer work with international students at Park University, and Diana's new book, Ruth: Building on the Firm Foundation, drawn from years of teaching Bible study.

Amazon Link:
Building on a Firm Foundation
https://a.co/d/02JtvJhJ

Music:
Intro and Outro Music by Jerry Abah
https://youtu.be/NJFQvXk36oM

Transcript

SPEAKER_04 0:00

Except the Lord, keep the city, they waketh in vain, they that watch over it. I want to always remember that no matter how incredible the ministry, or the mission, or the business being interviewed, it's all in vain if not for him. Thanks for joining us for another Faith Horizons podcast. The purpose of a Faith Horizons podcast is to discover the kingdom of God in Kansas City one conversation at a time.

SPEAKER_05 0:42

Today I'm here with Wayne and uh Diana Penner, right? Penner. Thanks, John, for inviting Wayne to the first time. Oh, no problem.

SPEAKER_02 0:50

These are these this is one of our missionary couples that we support at Salt Rock Bible Church. Okay. And they've been uh in ministry uh internationally and here in the United States since 1976. Uh they served in Brazil, South Africa, and now they've been uh with uh Carver uh Baptist Bible College Institute and Theological Seminary here in Kansas City for many years. And uh and uh Diana has written a book about Ruth.

SPEAKER_05 1:17

Well that's one of the things we're gonna talk about.

SPEAKER_02 1:19

Yeah, yeah, one of the things we're gonna talk about. So you know, yeah, so glad to have them here with us. And they're they're fellow Northlanders live in Gladstone. Uh I live by World's Fun.

SPEAKER_03 1:27

So we're the Southlanders around here.

SPEAKER_02 1:33

Well, but but you know, but you know, the Northland is God's country. Only God knows where it is, only God's people can find it.

SPEAKER_03 1:40

He always is teasing about that. Yeah, no.

SPEAKER_02 1:42

And you'll notice my microphone's farther away from me today because I'm told I'm blowing out the speakers. So yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:49

Didn't know my voice carried that much, but okay. Yeah, we're glad to be here. Uh we live closer to the post office, so we're on the other side of Gladstone. Yeah, you're right there by Gladstone Bowl. So, yeah, by the bowling alley there.

SPEAKER_02 2:01

So go there often.

SPEAKER_05 2:02

So you said you you work at Carver, so Carver Um Um Baptist Bible College. Where is that located at again?

SPEAKER_01 2:11

Basically on Blue Ridge Boulevard, um 78th and Blue Ridge Boulevard, roughly.

SPEAKER_05 2:17

That's practically South Kansas City, John.

SPEAKER_01 2:19

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 2:20

So he's coming from the Lord Northland as a missionary to the Southland as well.

SPEAKER_02 2:24

So yeah, we're and I come from the Northland to come here and and the AHA office.

SPEAKER_05 2:28

So you're you're a missionary to the Southland. That's right, yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_02 2:33

And and everywhere and internationally, too.

SPEAKER_05 2:35

So anyway, um, so you you said 70 78th and about uh Blue Ridge Boulevard.

SPEAKER_01 2:42

Blue Blue Boulevard, yes.

SPEAKER_05 2:44

Oh, cool. That's great. And then but you live uh up north near uh Gladstone, right?

SPEAKER_01 2:48

Right.

SPEAKER_05 2:49

And we had talked before that you guys are actually doing some volunteering at um Park Park uh University.

SPEAKER_01 2:55

Yeah, we we work uh Parkville and Park University is about 15 minutes from us. Okay. And so we do volunteer work. There is a uh local chapter for Intervarsity that works with international students. Yeah. And so we do volunteer at that. They have um like bi-weekly Friday evening get-togethers, especially during the semester, uh, which includes a meal, games, and some kind of study. And so we do that. We've also we've had many uh over to our house um a number of times for even like Thanksgiving meal and other and other occasions. And so yeah, it's it's we've we've enjoyed that particular opportunity just uh interact with um internationals.

SPEAKER_00 3:43

Part part of that, if I can part of that um ministry is uh a a new student comes, they've been they're in America for the first time in their life, and so part of that ministry is just going to the airport to meet them, yeah, take them to wherever they're going. Maybe they have to get a SIM card, maybe they have to get um um bank account. Wayne has helped some of the guys get their driver's license. They have a driver's license in their country, but it's not in English, so they have to retake the driving tests and all that. So he has helped some of the guys, and so there's lots of different um angles of you can imagine going to a different country. Well, what do I do now? I don't even speak the well, they do speak the language because most of them are um masters students. But yeah. But anyway, it's uh it's an adjustment.

SPEAKER_05 4:32

That's crazy, yeah. That's so cool. Yeah, so are the most of the international students are this from Asia, India, Africa?

SPEAKER_01 4:40

Africa. For a park university, the biggest number has been Ghana.

SPEAKER_05 4:44

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 4:45

But there's a number from Africa, but they've had a number from other countries as well. Indonesia, um, some Indonesia, Nepal, number from Nepal, Pakistan. Well, that's cool. Um, Nigeria, um, on and off.

SPEAKER_05 4:58

Because the driving in these countries is different than the driving in America.

SPEAKER_01 5:01

Well, yeah, most of them drive on the right side of the road. It's only if that's what I was saying. Yeah, it's only if they're in the English um the English Commonwealth. Uh, okay. That they that they drive on the correct side of the road.

SPEAKER_02 5:13

Yeah. So some of our AHA administrative contacts are in Nigeria, Liberia, uh, Uganda, uh, Ghana, like that.

SPEAKER_01 5:22

They don't be on the right. No, we were eight years in in South Africa, so we learned to drive on the as they say. The correct side of the road.

SPEAKER_05 5:34

That's something that that's talk about something to unlearn. You know, you have to like switch your things.

SPEAKER_02 5:40

Only us Yanks drive on the right side of the road. You know. Anyway.

SPEAKER_01 5:46

Yeah, no, it's it's different. You know, like I had a you know, for we had a four-wheel manual transmission, so you you shift with your left hand. That it's little things like that. Oh, that's too seemed strange at the beginning. But fortunately the br the brake pedals and accelerator were all on the same sequence. And so that was the same. And and if that was different, then it would be really difficult. Yeah, yeah. But yeah, turn signals, you know, what side of the thing.

SPEAKER_05 6:14

It's a lot of muscle memory that goes into driving, you know. So yeah.

SPEAKER_02 6:18

So how did how did uh how did God uh call you both to uh to international missions and how did you two meet? And you know, where did where did God take things from there?

SPEAKER_01 6:27

Well, I'll I'll let her start since she she ended up uh overseas first.

SPEAKER_00 6:32

Okay. Um it's uh it's a story that goes back many years. I grew up in a good church, and we always had missionaries coming through the church, and I remember for just from as long as I can remember, my parents were very hospitable. They would invite people to our homes, and so you know, we got to know some of the missionaries more personally. I always had an interest in missions, the Lord working in my heart, of course. Um, but then when I was uh a big story, when I was in sixth grade, um a family came through our church to our church to speak as missionaries, and uh they had a uh a daughter who was um also in sixth grade, and so we kind of hit it all sort of took to talk, and this uh I backstep a little bit. I wanted to be a missionary, wherever God would send me, but please don't send me to Africa. And don't make me speak Spanish. Because you either go to missionary, uh missionaries either go to Africa or they speak Spanish. I want to do something different, Lord, please. And so this girl said that she could speak Portuguese. Well, there you go, that's my language. And so I found out later that, you know, in Brazil they speak Portuguese. Well, Brazil and Portuguese, that kind of fits together, you know. So these were steps along the way as a little girl that the Lord is leading. Um, you know, and so back I went to college and that's what I was really preparing to do. And the Lord, I won't take time to go through all the circumstances, but he indeed led me to um to Brazil.

SPEAKER_05 8:10

So when you went down to Brazil, we talked a little bit about this, but when you went down to Brazil, what uh I know you had a sending organization. You said something like about Berean missions. Yes. And you had a and and what was the purpose of your group going down to Brazil?

SPEAKER_00 8:26

Um it was really to actually it was the um Brazil is a capital of the state. Okay. Cuyaba is the capital of the state of Mato Grosso in Brazil. Um missionaries were transitioning at that point out of uh work with um indigenous uh a tribe of people, and they were transitioning into Cuba, and so I got um, you know, went with that particular missionary couple, and another one joined us, and we were there just beginning work, uh beginning to start establish churches. So that was the purpose of our mission was to establish churches and to train the Brazilians to take over the work, which is over the years really what we did. I can remember I taught Sunday school because there was nobody else to do it. Well, I taught people how to teach Sunday school, and then you know, little by little you just work yourself out of a out of a job, so to speak.

SPEAKER_05 9:23

Well, that's so cool. So basically establishing churches, we're talking about 10, 15, 20, 30 people in a in a group per group or something like that.

SPEAKER_00 9:31

Something like that.

SPEAKER_05 9:32

I've been down so I've been down to Mexico twice with uh with another group, um Harvesters Missions. I think it's called Harvesters anyway. Um and when we went down there, man, there's just the people are overwhelmingly, they're just jumping up and down, you know, just singing, just worshiping God. I mean, they have a whole much more exuberance about, you know, you know, than than a lot of times in American churches that I've seen anyway, but it was it was quite an adventure. But now I went when we went down, we went to a small town called Oxlaw, but then we went out from there into some of the like the smaller villages around it as well. So yeah, that's really cool that you got to go down to Brazil though. So cool. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 10:17

And one of the first things we noticed when we came back to the States and go into a church to sing, everyone just kind of stands there and sings. Amazing grace. You know, and so you know, and but if you go to Brazil, it's like uh yeah, they weren't quite that, but but definitely more enthusiasm than that.

SPEAKER_01 10:36

More enthusiasm and more than the states. Yes.

SPEAKER_05 10:39

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's just I mean, it's just what it is. So different culture. Definitely a different culture. So all right, so then you so you said you started, you went down there in I think we talked about 1980, right? And then and then when did you decide to get your feet wet?

SPEAKER_01 10:56

Well, yeah. Well, just you know, basically, I'm I'm uh a few months younger, uh younger than my wife is, but yeah, and I mean one year behind in high school, but I didn't go straight to Bible college for out of high school. Yeah. For six years I was in the working world, um, primarily in house construction, and you know, uh ended up in a painting um for a contractor. Oh cool. And then in 1986, I came, I attended Calvary Bible College. Oh, that's now Calvary University.

SPEAKER_02 11:30

We had we had uh Josh uh with uh from there on uh on the on the podcast. Right.

SPEAKER_01 11:35

I I started on the campus back when it was on 39th Street, and then in the middle is when they moved out to the campus there by here near near Belton area. Oh yeah. And so I was on in both campuses, and so um anyway, uh basically through college, Laura I just sense the Lord's leading to missions anyway, and so I ended up um after graduating, got an MA and I did an internship at our our our my home church there in in Hutcheson, Kansas, and in 1986 is when I um went to Brazil. Oh, cool. Um now she yeah, uh and then we started actually dating a about a year later in Brazil. In April of eighty seven, and we got in December of eighty seven is when we were married. So we've been married thirty-eight thirty eight and a half years.

SPEAKER_05 12:29

Praise God, yeah. So good. So do so. Did you when you went down to Brazil, were you with the same missions group or yes, I went with the same mission. Okay, same mission. So you guys so were they building houses, building churches? Were they no?

SPEAKER_01 12:44

Our church our mission was primarily involved in church planning. Okay. Um and mostly the we were involved there in this in Cuiaba, which is the capital of our state. And then later on, we ended up going to two surrounding towns, one called Campo Vergi, which would be like Greenfield, and the other was Campo Novo, which is Newfield. And and those were both farming areas, and so there was a you know a lot of soybean and other crops were uh grown in the in the uh rural area of Mato Grosso. And so that was uh and so yeah, and so initially we were involved in churches, and then um in the latter part of our years I was involved in a Bible institute there, basically. So teaching. Um I was the administrator, and so we were uh it was basically like a church-based Bible institute, but it was multi- you know, a number of small churches um coming together for that. And so um, you know, many of our pastors were trained in the Bible Institute, a lot of you know, lay leaders, etc. And so I was involved for in that for a number of years. Um and then in 2011 we basically came to the conclusion that our it was time to move on. Yeah. And um and so that's when we left Brazil. Now, incidentally, we just return we went to Brazil the end of May. Yeah. So we just returned from a two-week trip to to Brazil. Uh here just a little over the years. Oh, really? Yes. And so it was just as an opportunity to connect to the churches, which are all still going. Oh wow. Um two two of them do struggle uh for numbers, but the other four are are much more, you know, are are doing fairly well. They all have all of them have national pastors. Um and they and they have that um conviction and desire that they need to be known for teaching the word of God.

SPEAKER_05 14:45

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 14:46

And um and uh around them, you know, there's a lot of pe a lot of churches that are involved in like in the prosperity gospel movement, but they have uh they believe that they need to stay uh remain grounded in the word of God. So it w it was good and we enjoy uh enjoyed the opportunity to encourage the uh uh the brothers there. You feel like Paul? But also going back, you know, it's kind of a Paul. Yeah, well, I guess yeah, so that's what Paul obviously, yeah, Paul did that. But and then also then, and we're gonna take and and yeah, and share what you know about the needs of the church with the church back here in Brazil. In fact, as we're looking forward to visiting Solid Rock Bible Church. And I we were supposed to come before the trip to Brazil, but actually in retrospect, I'm glad it happened after the trip.

SPEAKER_05 15:34

Solid Rock Bible uh church is uh John Laush's church.

SPEAKER_01 15:38

And so because they've been supporting us many years, including all of the m the years in Brazil. I was in Brazil. Oh wow. So it would be just uh it would be good just uh to share a little bit about what's happening in Brazil.

SPEAKER_05 15:51

Have you written any epistles lately about, you know, stop this, don't do this?

SPEAKER_01 15:57

No, we uh I'm not an apostle, and basically most of the time we tried when it comes to we try to bite our tongue and let the let them let the Holy Spirit and them figure it out. Yeah, and and basically when I left Brazil, uh the ver the verse the Lord gave me is the is Nehemiah 2.8, and it's it's and that's part B or C. I mean, uh is the good hand of the Lord was upon uh upon us. And and it and uh but what I recognize that you know yes, the good hand of the Lord was upon us, but it also was would be upon the brothers in Brazil. Absolutely, why not? Yeah. And so the Holy Spirit's not limited to uh uh he's not just working with Americans, he's working with people he's with every nationality. And so I believe that v verse every just as much applies to them. And so it was just encouraging to see that how they are continuing on. Yeah, that's awesome in the Word of God.

SPEAKER_05 17:02

Yeah, that's so cool. Is there anything is there any stories from the trip down there that you'd like to share, Diana, or that you and that you enjoyed about Brazil?

SPEAKER_01 17:11

Share about Sunada.

SPEAKER_00 17:13

Yeah, the one that came to mind was um when we were in Brazil um many years ago, we had a uh a gal came from Manaus, um thousand miles away to the north, basically. And uh well she came to live with live with her sister for a while. Well, her sister left and she didn't want to leave. Um, and so she needed a place to stay, and we invited her into her home. We had been friends for uh uh the few years that she was there already. And so um she spent some time there with us while her kids were little. Wow, it was a time of really formation in her life, and so um so we developed a friendship. Well, then you know, she left, she went back to Manaus, and eventually we left. Well, we came to uh we were coming back to Brazil, so we thought, well, let's just let her know. She knows a lot of people in Cuiababa if she happens to want to come. You know, and um so uh it was the Lord's leading, actually. We were able to help her pay her trip so she could get back to Cuiaba. And uh so she came, spent most of the time that we were there, she was there as well.

SPEAKER_07 18:24

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 18:24

Well, this was the Lord's doing. She is now married, has two girls, um, and uh the family from Sinata's trip, from the work that she saw there, she had already been disillusioned with things that are happening in Manaus, and the churches just aren't doing anything. They aren't I want a ministry where I can be involved. And uh she is a nurse and has, you know, she's busy with that. But she decided they decided, she and her husband, they are moving to Cuebah now. And we believe that that was the Lord's doing because he led us to invite her, even to help her to come to Cuebah. She saw the work, she found a place where she's going to fit in, where they are going to fit in, I should say. And so that's one of the biggest blessings. Uh I believe it's, you know, the Lord directed our steps that we would come and that we would invite her to come as well.

SPEAKER_05 19:19

So this is just the recent trip that you guys just took. And then you invited this lady.

SPEAKER_00 19:25

Just last night I got a message from her.

SPEAKER_07 19:28

Oh wow.

SPEAKER_00 19:28

Uh yeah, she's really they're really excited, and they believe that this was the Lord's doing in uh her being there and seeing the work. And and uh yes, early next year they plan to make the move.

SPEAKER_01 19:41

So yeah, her her name is Sinata.

SPEAKER_05 19:44

Sinata, wow. That's so cool. Yeah, that you go down there, you helped her get to Brazil. This is after 15, 15 years, you know. Yes, yes.

SPEAKER_01 19:55

Yeah, we were gone fifteen, and she probably is probably twenty-five, twenty twenty-five since we'd really seen her. Oh, okay, yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 20:03

I so it it'd been many So you went back and saw some some some existing fruit that was that was still there and growing.

SPEAKER_01 20:11

Oh, yeah, no. I mean, in fact, it's why our last Saturday there we were invited to take part and and uh this a a couple. Yeah. Now the guy we had not met before this trip, but now the the gal, actually I've known her entire life. I made my first pastoral visit to her when she was uh on the day she was born at the hospital. And so anyway, they decided to do a formal engagement, and so they didn't do their give the rings out until they did it in church on at a at a in kind of a formal ceremony. And so I actually had a so I was able to give a small ex uh word of encouragement to the couple. And so it was just, you know, it just went again, it's a family. I've known her parents for you know 30 plus years, whatever it is, and I've known her for her entire life. And so, you know, well, we won't be there. I think they're getting married in January. We're not planning to be there, but we were able to be there at least for this part. And so, yeah, it's just just some opportunities just to connect with people, and and literally some of them are friends we've known for decades. Decades.

SPEAKER_05 21:18

So after 2011, you came back to the States, is that right?

SPEAKER_01 21:22

Yeah, we're we left in April of 2011, and then it it it it was it it wasn't an easy transition. We did lose some church support, um, some financial support. It took a while to you know uh uh to get going. And if you remember 2012, that's when the if you if you look into the record books, you see that's when gas prices really peaked. Oh, yeah. I mean they were talking about, you know, gas would become four or five, six dollars a gallon. I mean I mean it was way worse than this, you know, this current gas price. And uh And so yeah, i it's not easy to raise money when gas is is i is high.

SPEAKER_02 22:07

How long did it take you to raise support originally to go to Brazil?

SPEAKER_01 22:12

Um I was uh whatever, how how long did it take you?

SPEAKER_00 22:16

Um about a year and a half more or less.

SPEAKER_01 22:20

I was on an internship and actually to be honest I put out a between the church and then actually I I prepared some cards and uh you know for for people and enough people other people, friends from the church filled them out that I had the support I needed almost instantly. Quickly, but then it took s it took a while to get to my but you needed some um well you need money for the trip trip and the reason you know, all those things into your initial, you know, you have to buy furniture when you get there because you and I didn't have those it took a while to raise those monies. But but mostly when I finished my internship and then in early 86, and then in April of 86 I was able to fly to Brazil.

SPEAKER_05 23:03

Oh wow, that's great. So um so you came back to the States in 2011, like you said, the gas prices were up. And so then you from there, where did you go?

SPEAKER_01 23:13

And then in um I think you ended up somewhere about 2012, you said 2012. It was like it was July 3 or July 4 we flew out. So uh we flew out in early July for South Africa.

SPEAKER_05 23:25

Somewhere somebody didn't want to go earlier?

SPEAKER_01 23:27

Well, that's what yeah.

SPEAKER_02 23:30

I think that's a very common when people go godsend me anybody in Africa. I've I've heard that many times over the years.

SPEAKER_01 23:38

The thing is, we we were not in the bush. We were in Johannesburg. Uh okay. I have never lived in a city. That's the largest city we've ever lived in. Now we've gone in in and out of Brazil, gone through Sao Paulo, which is also another very large metro area. But um, I mean it's I don't know, it's depending on how far out you go, it's like 10 million people. In Johannesburg. Johannesburg. Oh wow.

SPEAKER_02 24:03

I almost went to the mission field, uh, had a couple opportunities to go to Australia.

SPEAKER_01 24:07

Didn't didn't end up going long story there, but and so and we anyway, we ended up there on the west side of town at the International College of Bible Emissions, which I'll just from here on call ICBM for short.

SPEAKER_05 24:19

ICBM. Somebody had a nice joke here. It's an ICBM people.

SPEAKER_01 24:24

Yeah, no, yeah. So if you're uh all the engineers will will connect with that, but no, yeah. Anyway, that's what they've started. That the college was started in 2020, and we joined in in 2010. Um and actually they're still going.

SPEAKER_00 24:39

They've It was started in 2020 2000.

SPEAKER_01 24:41

2000, 2000. 2000. Not 2020. Yeah, yeah. 2000, excuse me. Thank you. It started in 2000. And now they recently sold their building, and and they're uh they're gonna be they're gonna try to rebuild near uh church, one of their main supporting churches. But they're still ongoing. In fact, as they've their their ministry now is extending to even they're making trips to Kenya. Oh, wow. And I believe planned to Mozambique, and so God has really opened up um their um So what was the mission there?

SPEAKER_05 25:14

You said you're kind of with a Bible college type of thing there. But yeah, was the mission there for the two of you?

SPEAKER_01 25:20

Uh basically uh we were on the staff. Um basically the one of the founders of ICBM was a cross-world missionary. Okay. And so anyway, that that opened up. When we left Brazil, we k we knew we weren't gonna be learning a new language at our age. It needed to be either English or Portuguese. Yeah. And so at ICBM we were able to teach in English because the it's one of the eleven official languages, and in it it's the main uh language used in higher education. Oh, yeah. And in business as well. And so, like if you're gonna work at a at a mall, at a s large store, you have to know English.

SPEAKER_05 25:59

Because there's just so many people.

SPEAKER_01 26:01

Right, because that's yeah, that's the common language.

SPEAKER_05 26:03

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 26:04

Um maybe it's might only be the I think it's like less than five percent is it they're uh speak at home language, but it or because there's a lot of other languages, but yeah, you know, but everybody but you have to know English. So we were able to teach in English, and we did that. Um and so we were involved there. I was Dean of Students, we were teachers, we were involved in their company.

SPEAKER_05 26:28

How many cities did they have there?

SPEAKER_01 26:29

We at the peak were just under 200. That's so cool, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 26:33

So yeah. So were they sending people all over the world from there or were they just mainly going back into the mainland?

SPEAKER_01 26:40

Now in South at ICBM, we had a lot, we did get l students from uh other parts of Africa. The b uh uh a large number came from um Zimbabwe. Zimbabwe. Oh really? We had a number from that was probably the uh Malawi. Malawi other yeah, the second I mean obviously the largest group is the South Africans, the next largest was Zimbabweans, and because there was a large number of those, and we had we managed to get in uh in with a group that was of Zimbabwe uh church group that was mostly from Zimbabwe. Oh wow, and so and so then but we had Kenya, Nigeria, and other c other parts of the word the word the the the country of Zimbabwe.

SPEAKER_05 27:25

What is there a movie with that related to Zimbabwe or something like that? Maybe the Cause Must Be Crazy or uh yes, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 27:33

I think so. Yes, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 27:37

Where they speak like do they do that or no?

SPEAKER_01 27:40

Um there are total languages there, yes. Fascinating group of people.

SPEAKER_05 27:46

Anyway, I I the first thing I was thinking of when you said Zimbabwe was a Jamaican bobsled team, but I'm like, no, no, that's the wrong country, wrong area. Anyway, but yeah, that's so cool. So you were down, you were there too. You guys were both teaching in um in Johannesburg then, right? So our pastor here at Grace Point Baptist Church is from from Joe is from Johannesburg, South Africa. So he's actually a missionary to the United States. God is sending missionaries from South Africa here now. He's like, wait a hold on now. Oh, yeah. It's the other way around now.

SPEAKER_02 28:21

Yeah, the God's Must Be Crazy was a 1980 film.

SPEAKER_05 28:24

Was it in Zimbabwe though?

SPEAKER_02 28:25

Um, well, it says that um uh a Coke bottle falls from a plane disrupting the peace of a peaceful tribe in um uh the Kalhari uh Kalahari. The Kahhari bush.

SPEAKER_00 28:37

And the Botswana, other neighboring uh neighboring countries.

SPEAKER_02 28:41

So I was in the wrong space. One of them decides to take the evil object to the end of the world to restore harmony, encountering a bumbling scientist and a school teacher along the way. So it's just a funny movie. It's a funny movie that we've got. We've seen the movie.

SPEAKER_01 28:55

Yeah, we have now. I have made a couple of trips to the Kalahari Desert. Oh, really? Yeah, mission trips. We did we did were able to do some mission trips with students from ICBM, and and that was quite the experience.

SPEAKER_05 29:08

Did you write Ruth while you were in uh Johannesburg? Was that here? Okay. So you guys when you left, so what at what year did you leave South Africa? So you've been back since 2020. Since 2020, okay. But you said, oh, he said something like 20, oh, you were still working until 2020.

SPEAKER_01 29:25

Yeah, March of 2020, but we kept on teaching and basically we would schedule a time and then we would record the class because students couldn't always match up with our our time frame. And the other thing is they were going through um they call it load shading, um Rolling Blackouts. Rolling blackouts. Oh and so a student couldn't even count on having a free energy to connect to the internet at the time of class.

SPEAKER_05 29:54

So we so you would record it here in the recording and then send it.

SPEAKER_01 29:59

Yes. Sometimes I had students live and there was times they did not. And I just go ahead and we record it on Zoom and post it on on YouTube. And so there's probably uh dozens of classes that I've recorded there on YouTube. Now you won't find them because they're all um private or private. Yeah, you have to have a link to find it. So yeah, don't uh don't try to find these.

SPEAKER_02 30:24

Don't try to find it because they're not they they're they're I've got a contact in Pakistan right now, just contacted me and they want me to do a 15 to 30 minute a week Bible study for them. So we gotta work out the logistics on that. So I've never preached anybody in a foreign country before, but hey, uh if God so calls, you know.

SPEAKER_01 30:41

No, if yeah. And we were via Zoom, we learned I learned how to do it, and so that's so cool.

SPEAKER_05 30:48

All right, so 2022. So all right, so that I know we're at Carver now, but then where did where did the book come into this? When did you start writing the book?

SPEAKER_00 30:57

Well, we come back to the States, and of course we're going we um you know joined a local church, and so we've been both been very active in the church. Um, and I actually took over teaching Bible study to women, women's Bible study, and uh I was asked to do so. And so I've always been a person I have always loved to write. Oh wow. Um I love to read, make up my own story uh teach stories, yeah, but teach true stories, of course. I love to teach the Bible. And uh so this Ruth was one of the one of the first ones that I taught as a Bible study. And uh out of the blue one day my pastor said, uh, well, you need to put that into a book. Well, I had never considered writing a book before. I just love to write. And uh actually pastors. Yeah, right. You know, so what do you do? And so he never he didn't say no, he kept saying, I just go do it. All right. So I I I I wrote the book of Ruth. It's basically just a Bible study. I say just a Bible study, but every uh it's eight weeks, and each week I start with whatever the story is for that week, I had my own introduction, which is my own story. Um and so that's um anyway, that's where it went.

SPEAKER_05 32:19

You can go ahead and show the book. This camera is your friend over there. So anyway, yeah, just Ruth. And then we'll put Ruth. Can they people can people buy that online or anywhere?

SPEAKER_00 32:29

Uh yeah, you can buy it on Amazon. Uh it's Building on the Firm Foundation, it's called.

SPEAKER_05 32:36

Um Ruth, Building on the Firm Foundation. Building on the Firm Foundation, of course.

SPEAKER_00 32:40

Right. If you know the story of Ruth, that's what she did. She built on the uh firm foundation of the Almighty who is stressed throughout the book of Ruth. So that's so good.

SPEAKER_01 32:52

I would mention if anybody wants to use it for a book for a ladies' Bible, a group study, contact us. I'll just say that would be the contact us and we we'll try to work out a special price. Special price, you know. Because we're not in it uh so yeah. But that's so good. If you want one book and you're an Amazon Prime member, just uh you can order it on Amazon. And have it and get it delivered. Just look for Ruth Building on the Firm Foundation by Diana Pinner.

SPEAKER_00 33:22

By Diana Pinner. Yeah, Ruth by Diana Pinner.

SPEAKER_02 33:25

So now you're at Carver Baptist Bible College Institute and Theological Seminary, uh, which has been around since 1942, to celebrate their 80th anniversary in 2022. It's a lot of things that happened in 42. Yeah, well, they started they started during World War II. Yeah, wow. So that's been you know a long time. And uh that's like you said, it's here locally in Kansas City and uh Carber Kc.edu if you want to look up the college. And so when did you guys start working with Carper?

SPEAKER_01 33:51

I started in ear uh in January of 2021. Okay. And again, and I taught by the first class was by Zoom. I taught the book of Romans and I had I had I think three students, two in Kansas, I think one in Kansas City, Kansas, one in Kansas City, Missouri, and one uh near Cleveland, Ohio.

SPEAKER_05 34:16

So just because I mean I've been to Bible college myself, so what is different about Bible college than just say going to a normal church and just listening to the pastor? Because the pastors like to teach through Romans too. I mean, so what do you what do you what do you I mean?

SPEAKER_01 34:31

Yeah, and and and in the yeah, and some churches have pastors who are really teaching pastors, and and so like if you were uh in some some churches, if you tend 20 years, you probably almost leave, you probably and you paid attention, you wrote notes, yeah, you kept up with it, you probably have the equivalent of a Bible college education. You should, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 34:52

That's the way if you have if you're around Pastor Jerry and Pastor Sam in our church, that's the way it is. That's what it is. I I've always said some sometimes when I'd be sitting in the office that uh that I've used there at the church, um, me and another guy would be sitting there talking, and Pastor Jerry would show up, and you know, we didn't even know he's in the building, and suddenly suddenly he'd get into this, you know, theological, you know, biblical discussion, and he'd walk away and we both look at each other and go, I love it. But how does he do it? Because he went to Bible Calls back like in the you know 60s, 70s, something like that. But he's still, you know, and he's like you know almost 80 years, you know, 70 something years old, and he still maintains so much knowledge. I mean, it's a blessing from God, but it's incredible.

SPEAKER_01 35:31

Yeah, and so the opportunity is to have a you know get a concentrated period of studies. I mean, because the but the problem is, you know, if if you you're a church over a 20-year period, there there's there's a long there's a huge gap of time from your first sermon you heard to the last sermon. Uh and there's uh a certain amount you forget. And so the closer you're able to keep your c your studies together.

SPEAKER_05 35:56

So like a Roman study in six to ten weeks or or sixteen weeks, sorry, eight weeks, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 36:02

And then you immediately followed. And again, and there's usually assignments, and so you have opportunities to go deeper, like you take her class on intro to Bible study, you learn how to actually study the Bible, you actually have to do assignments, turn them in, you have to write papers, you have to, you know, in in the interaction. And again, our c you know, our classes, I mean, you know, you I think there's well, there's more freedom to for a student as a question, you know, you yeah, they can raise, we can raise their hand, and we'll we'll get into their we can in where a typical sermon we usually don't You don't get to raise your hands. We usually don't have that opportunity to raise hands. Now on the Sunday, like a Sunday school class, if they have when when those happen, yeah, I know that that often happens.

SPEAKER_02 36:47

Yeah, that's the way we are at Solid Rock. We it's an open forum, you can make comments, ask questions, that type of thing. And that's that's what they'll be doing when they come speak. Anybody anybody I connect with that I bring in, either our missionaries, missionaries from other missions organizations, or people from local ministry organizations, they get to they get to speak the entire 9 15 to 10 15 a.m. Sunday school hour, and then they and then in the worship service right after the announcements, I go up on stage with them, introduce them. Um, you know, and if everybody knows them, I'm like, you know, if they need no introduction, you all know them, but you know, here's what they do. And then I just to ask them to take like five minutes or so and to share with our church what's what's you know what's going on in their ministry right now, uh, what's ahead, how can we pray for them? And then I step back, let them do their thing, and then as they're kind of wrapping up their story, then I step back up, lay a hand on them, we pray, I pray for them, and then we exit the stage. And and then they usually have a table out in the foyer where they can have information too, so people can go, you know, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 37:43

You got the steps of this as rehearsed as Zig Ziggler's Zig Ziggler's man. I'm a detailed guy, it's what I'm saying. You are, yeah. But yeah, anyway, so anyway, so you're teaching, you're teaching for 16 weeks, and then you said that you're also teaching it for six for the same period of time as that for 16 weeks, and then you're teaching intro to Bible study, is that right? Yes. Okay. Yeah, because I feel like that's what we l that's what we lose as we get as we get older, we lose the ability to uh like almost like the the word of God because I mean I went to Bible college when I was in when I was 18 and 19 years old and 20 years old, you know? And so like I haven't lost the word of God, but I learned I've lost like this this like this desire to take the the the substance of the word of God and then take the real world and see the the combined effect of the two of them, you know, like when God steps on the scene, it changes everything, you know? And it changes your the way you think it. And so like is that what you encourage? I'm just asking, are you are you in when you're doing Bible study, are you encouraging people to this is applicable in your real world today?

SPEAKER_00 38:51

Well, to me, uh you bring up Bible study, which I am teaching. I um you start out with three three questions basically. Um, what does the original author say? Okay. Okay. What does he say? Just get in there and observe the word and which means reading. And there's methods for how you pull out of the text what is he saying, not what I think he says, but what he is actually saying. You observe what it says. Well, and then what does it mean? There's where you get into the interpretation, but it's not what I want it to mean. I can only figure out what it says, what it means when I see what he says.

SPEAKER_02 39:31

Yeah, there are too many. There are too many people out there in the world today that want to look at scripture and they want to go, well, I think it means we're not asking what you think it means. We're asking what does God's word say? Trevor Burrus, Jr.

SPEAKER_00 39:42

And the third thing is application. First of all, what does it mean? And the meaning doesn't change. There's one meaning. The meaning doesn't change. Well, then I interpret it, which is based on what he actually said. What well what does that mean? You know, what is the meaning of this word? We'll go back to the Greek and find out what it meant back then, not what I think it means. And then how do you interpret, how do you apply it to your life? And we want to what you're saying is we want to apply it first. No, you don't apply it first. You've got to find out what it says. Yeah. Well, I actually want to apply what we think it says first. Trevor Burrus, Jr. Well, exactly. No, and so so that's Bible study. And and keying off of what you were just saying, um, not to promote this book of Ruth, but basically, I took I went to Bible college as well way back, graduated um back in the early 70s. I could not have written this book back then. Okay. Where did I get that from? I have studied God's word. I have studied God's word. So when in there, what does it mean? Well, I saw Ruth's story and I saw Naomi's story and I saw Boaz's story and I saw how it related to my life in a way. And so I told a little bit of my story, but then well, let's see what that what that has to do with scripture. So basically, studying the word means studying the word, studying what it says.

SPEAKER_03 41:05

Are you sure that that's what it means?

SPEAKER_00 41:08

Well, you know. That's so interesting, though.

SPEAKER_05 41:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 41:12

So anyway, yeah, well and how Ruth's story led to the the lineage of David. Yeah. Led to the lineage of Jesus Christ. Exactly. And and I think when when you're looking at scripture, you know, you've got to first say, okay, you know, when was this book written? You know, what was going on during that period? Who is the author? Um, you know, what what's what's the primary message in it? And then you take certain passages and you say, okay, who is speaking? Who are they speaking to? You know, and and what what are they actually again? Not what I think, but what the word says is is being said here, you know, like so it's not of any private interpretation. We have to take it for what it is. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 41:50

Just for example, the um again, keying off what you said, you go to the book of Ruth and open it up and read verse one.

SPEAKER_07 41:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 41:59

And in the days when the judges ruled, or actually you go back to Judges, the last verse, it's Judges and then Ruth. So in the days when the judges ruled, you know, and it ends with that horrible story, but right there in the middle of Judges, somewhere, this book happened. Well, how could this virtuous couple, these virtuous people, have lived in that terrible period of the judges? Well, read your Bible.

unknown 42:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 42:26

Read your Bible. That's what you get out of a study of the word, not just.

SPEAKER_02 42:33

And a good way to to to get a lot of the Bible is try to read it cover to cover every year. So, you know, I'm I'm I'm about to finish up and not, you know, give myself credit here. God has given me a deep love for his word and admission of my own need and desire for it in my life on a regular basis. So I'm about to finish up my 16th time reading it cover to cover. And and just like and anybody will tell you that's a student of God's word, no matter how many times you sat in church and heard it, no matter how times you read certain passages, you've read the entire Bible, something is always gonna jump out to you. Like when I was reading the story of the flood again this year, I missed a lot of the details about why because most people think 40 days, 40 nights, the flood. That's not quite the whole story here. There's a lot more days and a lot more nights and a lot more detail in here. And when I read it through again, I was like, wow, I missed that last time.

SPEAKER_01 43:25

You know, there's something like 171 days of remember right, all total that but you know, but if you if you have a true lottery at full force.

SPEAKER_02 43:33

If you have a true open heart and open mind, uh, which you know, when I'm praying by myself, praying for my church and my pastors, as well as when I pray for whoever's teaching Sunday school on Sunday mornings, you know, my prayer is always help everyone here and start with me, Lord, to have an open heart and open mind to what you want us to learn today and give this this brother that's teaching um peace of heart, peace of mind, peace of spirit, the words you want. Them to say in the way you want them to say it so that it you know and then help us to take something that we can apply to our own lives and share with other people, which is kind of there's I forget their name, but there's somebody out on Facebook that I'm I'm on their page over a week, and every we every Sunday they go out and ask, What was your church's message about today? to see how many people actually retain Sunday school is this and worship service was this, and you know.

SPEAKER_05 44:23

So I had I had one thing I I had. So like I was, you know, if you ever wanted to, I mean, I know that everybody's done this here at this table, but you know, like just dig through the lineage of Jesus Christ. I mean, if you can look through the Jesus anyway, so one of the ones that kind of like I didn't understand completely was Solomon. So um David sinned with Bathsheba. His first uh child died, right? But the second child was Solomon. So God like completely vindicated that whole entire thing, and out of that he he pulls Jesus. It's just his craziness. You mean like God's like if you look at the the mess of Jesus Christ's lineage, people, you're in there somewhere, you'll be fine. Well, and you're like, I'm just saying that you know we got Bathsheba, we've got, you know, uh, I think Rahab, right? Isn't Rahab in the line of Christ? Yes, and and Ruth. Yeah, and Ruth. I mean, I'm just saying, like, these are just some interesting people that are just yeah, that just specifically the women. The women are the specifically the women are completely out of the spectrum here, you know. Um to Aaron.

SPEAKER_02 45:38

And there's some other cool details there too. Like you take, you know, when the when in the days of the judges, when you know, uh the people were crying, give us the king, give us the king. So God gave them Saul. Well, Saul reigned forty years, yeah. Okay, David reigned forty years, Solomon reigned forty years, you know, the Noahic flood, originally, you know, supposed to be, you know, forty days, forty nights, Jesus' temptation in the desert, forty days, forty nights. Yeah, yeah, that's definitely forty. So there's a there's a lot of repetition of that. And I've always said when there's repetition in scripture, if you're paying, that's God saying, Hey, pay attention. There's something you need to learn here. You know, whether it's repetition of a number or it's a repetition of you know, a certain phrase, you know, or a certain idea. So you God's trying to get you to pay attention. So you were gonna add something, Wayne, what you're saying.

SPEAKER_05 46:25

Okay, you're all good. Anyway, well, uh, so you guys write Carver now, and then uh you wrote the re wrote the uh the book of Ruth, and uh if people want to get that, they can go online and um uh if people want to find you or reach out to you or have you come, you know, do a Bible study at their church or something like that, is that possible or would like to support you, you know, going forward?

SPEAKER_01 46:48

Yeah, they um get in contact with or even here with Brother Lost, he knows our details and uh he he would be able to forward. Yeah, I think you forward to this pod podcast, it could be forwarded to us, and we'd be glad to get in. Yeah, which we will. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 47:05

Well, I'll put your email or some type of contact on the email on Facebook.

SPEAKER_02 47:08

Wayne and Diana Pinner on Facebook. Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_01 47:10

You know, I'll put some type of thing for them to build a contact. Yeah, we are on we are on Facebook under you know, we have a joint account, Wayne, Diana Pinner. Right.

SPEAKER_02 47:18

And then if you go to our church's website, srbblechurch. uhorg under missions, you'll find Wayne and Diana Pinner, and you'll find several of their past, you know, support, you know, letters and things like that in there. Um so lots of ways to get in contact with them.

SPEAKER_07 47:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 47:33

Well, thank you guys for all the time that you guys have been serving. Just this the teaching of God's word and just the continuing to teach and teach and teach and teach. So I never had a teacher's bug, but maybe God wants to change that in me. It seems like there's so many different, you know, Jesus was a teacher, right?

SPEAKER_01 47:51

Well, there's always somebody that could be taught. I mean, and you know, there may be a a new believer, a young man. I mean, we have a young man in our church who was saved here with sometime in the last year. And I want to, you know, others meeting with him, but he's he he I had a missions moment at our church and he he was excited about it. Yeah. So I'm gonna sit down. I think right now his you know work schedule he starts early, but later on is gonna change. We're gonna meet and have breakfast together. Just sit down and we'll talk about missions and what a little bit what God is doing in missions through our church.

SPEAKER_05 48:31

Oh, wow.

SPEAKER_01 48:32

And so I mean, and so teaching doesn't always have to be in front of a classroom. Sometimes it's just finding finding somebody who who needs to grow, somebody who's hungry to learn something.

SPEAKER_02 48:43

Although they become Timothy.

SPEAKER_01 48:44

And so it doesn't, you know, it doesn't have to be a formal situation in a classroom. Right now we're in a formal situation. We have to, you know, we have to grade mark assignments, we have to give grates at the end of the semester. What does it doesn't have to be that way? It can be. There's nothing wrong with it.

SPEAKER_05 49:02

But like you said, you're finding the volunteer opportunities, then you have friends or people you're meeting on the side that you're continuing to.

SPEAKER_01 49:08

Yeah, and so, and right now we're doing a Bible study with a young couple from Haiti. Oh, cool. And so that we we're doing that. And then so here kind of got a month or two, I'll meet with this young man who's just, you know, is excited. I mean, I was I had done an interview with a a gal who was in Brazil, and he was he was excited about that. And so, well, you know, and so I just said that meeting. I have no idea where it's gonna go, but uh maybe just the one meeting, or they will have the beginning of a friendship, but you know, he needs to know that at the church, you know, there's there are old, you know, there's an older, I'm one of the older guys anymore. Yeah, but there is an you know, and an older guy who's willing to spend time with him.

SPEAKER_05 49:49

The church needs all ages, it really does. A vibrant church needs all ages.

SPEAKER_01 49:52

And so if you're a teenager, there's there may be a so there's somebody younger than you who needs might need a good who could use a good word from you. Oh, yeah. So that's so good, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 50:05

Yeah, there the church needs all ages. A vibrant, healthy church needs all ages. So well, thank you so much for being on the show today, which is really good learning about your life, and thanks, John, for the invitation. No problem. And um, God bless.

SPEAKER_01 50:19

Yeah, no, thank you. It was our pleasure to be here. We had never been right here in this corner of Kansas City. We've passed close by, but always on the interstate, always on interstate 60 miles an hour.

SPEAKER_05 50:31

Yeah, this is the church that has the the David Star up at the top of it at night. I don't know if you've ever seen it. Okay, no. Okay, well, pay attention now. During Christmas, we have a huge star that's about 15 foot across. Okay. Oh, wow, okay. And it's lit up at night. So yeah, if you ever see it, you'll know how to do that. That's the that was it. I was there. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 50:52

Great Baptist Church, folks. And we and plus we thank them for letting us have this studio here. Yeah. And of course, I know you deal with their deal with their own. There's an exchange, there's an exchange thing.

SPEAKER_05 51:00

So you know, so there's an exchange, but yeah, we really loud like the fact that uh I get to have a space to to do this. So thank you so much. God bless. Our pleasure. Here's a quick update from Faith Horizons. I have recently added unique pages for each organization interviewed on the Faith Horizons podcast. These pages include all articles and posts for that specific organization and also include the opportunity to leave your testimony of experience with them.

SPEAKER_04 51:32

You can find these specific organization pages and the opportunity to leave testimonies on the front page. Please take the time to leave a testimony for whichever organizations have impacted you.

SPEAKER_05 51:45

It really helps tell the complete story of what God is doing in Kansas City. Thank you so much.